On Gotras

>What happened to the Gotra’s of those people who left the
>Indian Homeland(OIT)?

OIT or AIT the gotra concept can be traced back probably to the
proto-indoeuropean era. The concept of the gens and phratia are the
gotra equivalents amidsts the romans and greeks. The
buddo-communist Kosambhi erroneously argues that the gotra names are
totemic symbols of the respective tribes. This is plain wrong because
most names can be traced back to historical authors of the R^igvedic
period. The gotra originally was and to this date is a patriarchial
hereditary unit and was established for exogamous marriage purposes.
Some of the gotras can be traced even amidst the early Iranians. The
spitama was clearly the gotra of zarathustra who may have shared
pravaras with a branch of the bhArgavas. From the Avesta we can infer
that the other gotra shared by the Indians and the Iranians was that
of the gotamas. However following the separation of the Iranians there
appear to have been genesis of new Iranian specific gotras even as
the Indian specific shunakas arose. The avesta mentions a clan athwya
that appears in the R^ig as the Aptya that one may interpret as a now
extinct gotra of the bhArgavas. While bhArgavas and some angirasa
clans may even be traced back to the to the PIE period the remaining
clans amidst the druhyu and the anu clear were different from those
amidst the Indians and their names do not survive in entirity due to
the destruction of their cultures.

But gotra like systems were clearly attested in the later day
descendents of the Tocharians: the kushANas. These had an exogamous
clan structure with 5 dominant clans at the time of the invasion of
India of which that of kujala khadphises became dominant. Further the
Secret history of the Mongols of Chingiz Kha’khan describes a very
remarkable parallel of the gotra system in their clan structure. Thus
for those who favor the AIT the gotra-like system may even go back to
the Eurasian common heritage. The Secret history is a must read for
any one comparing AIT and OIT because it provides some excellent
material to compare and contrast the Indo-Aryan culture with.

> The possibility of the Spatima gotra sharing pravaras with the
> Bhargavas.
>
> *** How do you conclude that? You could be right, but what is the
> basis>

One of the aspects of the early Indo-Iranian Gotra system was to name
the clan after a prominent hymn composer of R^ishi who figured in the
ancestory. The bhArgavas to this date remember their eponymous
ancestors atharvAn or bhrR^igu and utter their names before
performance of the vishasahi vrata or the new moon rite or the rite of
dIksha. In the fravashi yasht that is sort of a combination of
a purusha sUktaM-like hymn and pitR^i-medha hymns of the Iranians it
is mentioned in mathra 84 that ZarathushTra the performer of yazna of
the clan of the Spitama was born of Athravan. This clearly suggests
his origin in the bhArgava line. I should acknowledge here that
Talageri too makes this point in his new book. However, his actual
pravaras may have differed from those of the numerous Indian
bhArgavas. As the pitar ca maitravaruNi paryAya of the Atharva veda
ShaunakaS:4.29 the avesta also list many ancestor who might have
figured in their pravaras. include: Spitama, Thrimithwant, Daevo-tbhis
and Takhma in the zarathushtrian line.

> Secret history of the Mongols of Changez Khan, concept of gotra
> system exists.
> Would you mind providing the author, publisher, ISBN. Seems to be an
> interesting book.

Formally a gotra-like system can be defined as a patrilinear descent
system wherein the clan gets its name after a prominent male member
and this clan acts exgamously in matters of mating. Certain male
members are quasi-venerated by the descendents. In this definition the
mongol system was gotra-like though not the same as the Indian one
because there is no evidence for Hymn composition meaning anything to
the mongols or some other steppe people with similar systems. The
mongols used the word Orda and the four sons of chingiz founding the 4
khanates may be compared to the founding of the pancha janaH.

Secret history: See translation of Cleaves. Al juvainy in urduized
Hindi (painful for me) is also an option.
Importantly the Indo-Aryan gotra system had little to do with
educational/ teaching purposes. See that paippalada’s students did not
change to his gotra (prashna U) nor did paippalada change his to
become an AV Shakakrit. Its main use was and is in marriage and
ritual.

Sidenote: Shri Sitaram Goel suggested that there can be only one form of
nationalism for Indians and that is Hindu Nationalism. He pointed to
an important issue: People like the RSS have an undue attachment to
the piece of land called bhArata. It is not the piece of land that
lends the Hindus their identity but it is their culture. Hence their
primary affliation should be to their culture and not just the land.
It is this affiliation to the culture that still keeps the
Austronesians of Bali still tied to their religion. A corollary to
this is that the AIT should really not be damaging to the Hindu
Nationalist position. Hence there need not be a taboo amidst true
Hindus and they should address the AIT issue quite unemotionally and
objectively. The rightful resentment against the inimical Indologists
should be directed against them rather blindly against a theory. The
AIT itself may be wrong or right but that should be decided quite
independently of the assault on the Aryophobes. While we (true
Indians) must take all steps to destroy the communist ideology that
has corrupted large swathes of the Indian masses and threatens the
Hindu identity we need something to replace it. This replacement is
the unadultrated Hindu dharma that is open to informed interpretation
rather than a diluted or distorted version of it. If we do away with
AIT with a serious discussion just because it was favored by our
communist foes then we are not really not instilling the questioning
spirit that pervaded the Hindus in their heydays. I would like to
know if Hindu nationalism can survive independent of the OIT.

Indo-Iranian and Mongolic deities

While the general thought has been that the Indianisms have infected
the Mongol religion rather later in their history via the buddhists, I
feel some of the material entered it an early period. Examination of
Buryat, Oirat and Chingizid material discussed in Chabros and
Heissig’s works and provide much evidence for this.

One set of influences can be traced to the late Iranian period:
1) The Supreme deities of the Northern regions are called Qormusda and
Adar. These are derivatives of Ahura Mazda and his son Atar. One of
the deities of the southern regions is Chagchi, the god of time. who
is described as a white old man riding a Lion. This matches well with
the late Iranian deity Zurvan and perhaps entered the Mongol world
from the Iranian colonists in central Asia rather than the earlier
steppe Iranians.

Heissig records a fragment of a chant prior to 1500 that goes as:
“The highest of the 99 gods is Moengke Tengri; The the 33 gods are led
by Qormusta Khan Tengri.” The number 33 also appears clearly
Indo-Iranian and the above chant suggests a syncretic development
where the original Altaic deity Moengke Tengri is invoked along with
the Ir Qormusta. Another chant states “Burqan (Buddha) struck the
first light but it was Qormusta who made the first fire”. Thus the
fire cult is also associated with Qormusta. The Western visitors to
the court of the Chingizid Mongols records their worship of the fires
suggesting that it was acquired well before expansion of the Mongol
regime.

The fire worship amidsts the Mongols, with libations of ghee, has many
parallels to the I-Ir fire worship. Important fire rituals are
performed at the end of the year, spring equinox and summer solstice
like the mahAvrata rite. Further the marriage cermonies were also fire
rituals with a chant asking for good children and brides. However, the
fire was mainly invoked as a female deity Ghalakhan Eke. This
suggests a development through an even earlier contact with the I-Irs.

The Mongols make a fire offering similar to the svAhA offered by the
Indo-Aryans. One such hymn to the supreme tengri of heaven is recored
as being used when the banner of Chingiz Kha’khan was planted when he
was ordained supreme Khan of Turko-Mongol tribes:
Above is my eternal Koeke Moengke Tengri,
Below is my mother Earth,
Through the prior decision of Koeke Moengke Tengri arose fire,
From him was the cattle born. (Fire offering)
Tengri Echige, sacrificing I pray to you,
you who protect my body,
who takes illness and sorrow away from me,
who keep far from me the danger of the sword. (Fire offering)
Tengri Echige, sacrificing I pray to you,
you who defeat brigands and bandits,
those who act covetously,
you who keep far from me the danger of the deity of death. (Fire
offering)

A distant echos of the ancient common Eurasiatic culture shared by the
Indo-Europeans and Uralo-Altaics with the later layer of the fire
offering from an Indo-Iranian source become apparent.

The Mongols also worship sets of gods arranged analogous to Indian
deity hierarchies:
doerben jobkis un tengri: Gods of the 4 directions
nayiman kijaghar-un tengri:Gods of the 8 directions
with Maqagala Darqan guejir tengri (mahAkAla) in the center.
mahAkala is also called Mal-un tengri*- the cattle god (as pashupati)
This suggests a possible syncretization of an original ancient rudra
like deity with the later Indian import mahAkAla (via Tibet).
Maqagala is also associated with two later Indian imports bisnu tengri
and Bisman (viShNu and kubera respectively).

Indra was brought in via the Tibetans. As lamaism spread he was
clearly identified with a much older deity Khan Atagha Tengri, not
traceable thus far amidst any of the Turkic branches (other than
perhaps the early Uighurs). It may suggest an early acquisition from
Indo-Iranians from an Indra like deity. A fragment chanted by a Buriat
shaman has been preserved (note the ancestral similarity to Indra):
We worship Khan Atagha Tengri,
your thundering voice is heard close to the abyss,
unifier of thoughts of the Mongols,
With a gigantic, great body, with a thunderbolt,
Ruler over the many clouds, with a thousand eyes,
My Atagha Tengri supreme over all,
May you grant me the blessing and good fortune of your protection.

(*Hindi word mAl?)

Alans, hUnas:I-Irs and Altaic peoples on the steppe

The issue of how the Central Asian Steppe passed on from the
Indo-Iranians to Altaic is quite complex. More detailed investigation
are much required in this regard. However there are few points that
suggest that Altaics gradually ate away into the Iranian domain over a
long period of time and many of these tribes showed considerable
admixture of the Altaic and I-Ir streams. By 300 BC the Iranians had
practically become the main force on the Central Asian and
European steppes with Indics restricted to certain areas and rapdily
facing assimilation. However, there may be faint echoes of Indic
persistance within the Iranian cloak for a while. Between 250 to 210
the Khan Tuman started organizing the first great horde in Mongolia
that played out the first round of the familiar Altaic expansion under
his son Motuen Tegin, the aggressive Altaic expansionist.
The Alan horde is traditionally a Sarmatian tribe- probably Iranian
speaking. They appear earliest as the Alan group around 285AD; their
rulers were called by the title Kundajiq- it is not clear if this was
Iranian or Altaic in derivation, though superficially it sounds
Altaic. Their first ruler is termed a certain Akshadar (Apparently
Iranian). Then we see two more rulers after the Alan horde liberated
itself from the Hunas around 450AD called Saros and Kandak (At least
the later may be of Iranian derivation). Interestingly the name Saros
also appears as the first Khan of the expansionist Altaic horde of the
Avars about 80-100 years later.

Later when the Turkic Khazar Khans overran the Alani, they appear to
have taken the horde under their control: we see a Kundajiq with an
Altaic name Itaz. The before the conquest of the Alani by the
Chingizid horde we see two Kundajiq’s with peculiar names: Suarna
ruling around 1150 and a successor named Pancalo Bagratuni. Atleast
the first name seems to be an Indic (rather than Ir?) hangover while
the second has Ir elements. So it appears that the Alans subject to
much Altaization over time and in large part were absorbed (A part by
Cuman tribes, the tribe from which Qutub ud Din Aibak(may Allah
perfume his pit) comes). Similarly on the West the Alani appear to
have been Germanized via interactions with assorted German tribes.

The Hephalites or the hUnas who invaded India were of
originally Iranian origin. Even they show signs of admixture with
Altaics. Their first recorded ruler Akhshunwar (Ir name) appears to
have had marriage relationships with Iranian royals. However, one of
his successors is named Yelue Dua- while sinicized it resembles the
Khitan names. The rulers in India, successor of Lakhana are called
Khingila and Vahi Tegina suggesting persisting Altaic elements.